Loving Arsenal doesn’t mean having to agree with every decision that gets made
September 6, 2012
It’s not that surprising that football fans tend to have very polarised opinions.
Right from an early age we’re asked to define ourselves in the clearest of terms. What are you? Are you Arsenal? Or are you Spurs? And once you’ve answered the question that’s pretty much it. A lifetime commitment. Never to be swayed. Where I grew up the answer was often ‘no, I’m Liverpool’ due to the Scousers’ domination of the league at the time. And of course I still see the odd one occasionally, forlornly talking up the talents of Jay Spearing. And I can’t help but chuckle to myself.
My point is we’re trained to be either one thing or the other. Red or blue. Black or white. We fans tend to be very suspicious of anything a little bit grey. And I’m not just talking about our former captain.
As a daily Arsenal blogger that can make life difficult at times. Because as much as I love this club, as much as I admire and approve of the sensible way that it’s run and idolise the manager and (almost) all of the players, once in a while, I’m sorry to say, there are things that I think we could have done better. And in between the excitable posts about our matches and our new signings and potential formations and our chances against our rivals I do occasionally like to air those views. But in some readers’ eyes that’s tantamount to heresy.
Consider this. I can honestly say that throughout the last 15 years barely a day has gone by that I haven’t at some stage paused whatever I was doing to think to myself how grateful I am that Arsene Wenger joined this club. Pathetic and a tiny bit sad? Maybe. But what can I say? I really like that creasy faced Frenchman. So the amount of times I get emails and comments from readers telling me that I’m an idiot for not showing Le Boss sufficient respect and failing to understand what he’s done for the club is quite overwhelming.
Of course, if on the other hand I write anything to suggest that certain quarters may have gone a bit overboard in their criticism of the squad or our chances in the season I’m barraged with accusations of being an AKB. An ‘Arsene Knows Best’. With my head in the sand as the club collapses around me.
Is it not possible to love the club, love the manager, love the players, really have very fond feelings for the board too but still disagree with some of the decisions that get made? For the record, for those that are desperate to put everybody in a pigeon hole I would define myself not as an Arsene Knows Best, more as an Arsene Knows Better Than A Lot Of Us Owing To His Many Years Of Coaching Experience And His Day To Day Work With The Squad Which Puts Him In The Unique Position Of Having An Inside Knowledge Of The Strengths And Weaknesses Of His Players. That’s right I’m a AKBTALOUOTHMYOCEAHDTDWWTSWPHITUPOHAIKOTSAWOHP.
Stick that in your acronym guide.
In fact I’m thinking of having the full sentence minus the first two words made up into a banner and then I’m going to take it along to the Emirates and drape it next to that guy with the ‘Arsene Knows’ banner. Just to make everybody clear on where I think we stand.
On days when we lose, just to cheer people up, I might also have one that read ‘A Decent Curry Place Down The Road. Why Don’t We All Meet Up There After This And Forget All About It?’.
I suppose what I’m trying to say, and credit to you for sticking with me this far, is that it’s perfectly feasible to love the club, love Arsene Wenger and think that he’s by far the best man for the job, but still disagree with some of the decisions he makes.
I got a comment a couple of days ago accusing me of inconsistency because I was raving about our performance against Liverpool but a couple of days earlier I’d been critical of the club for not making the signings that I, and the manager seemed to think we needed to ensure a sustained title challenge should we face our inevitable mid-season injury crisis. I shouldn’t need to point out that those two opinions are in no way contradictory. Wanting to improve our squad depth isn’t some sort of slight on the players that we already have at the club.
I got another comment recently which basically said ‘Oh here we go. Another blogger who thinks he knows anything about running a football club. Why don’t you leave it to the professionals?’. I don’t know exactly what sort of blog that guy is looking for but I hope he lets me know when he finds it. Surely if we’re going to write about the team it can’t just be day after day of puff pieces talking about what brilliant football we play and fantasising about how nice it would be to go for a cup of coffee with Thomas Vermaelen. What would be the point?
I’m not saying I don’t enjoy all the comments. I love the fact that increasingly this site is becoming a place where fans can openly and honestly exchange views. And I don’t even mind being called an idiot when people disagree with my opinions (well I do. I die a little bit inside every time but hey, football’s an emotional subject). A decent debate is part of what being a football fan is all about. But I do think that we as fans do ourselves an injustice when instead of discussing the issues at hand we resort to name calling or pigeonholing each other as being ‘AKB’s or simply ‘bad supporters’.
We’re polarised enough by our early choice of club. Why marginalise ourselves any further?
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Comments
36 Responses to “Loving Arsenal doesn’t mean having to agree with every decision that gets made”
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loving a blog doesn’t mean having to agree with every opinion that gets put forward.
Although, to be fair, you do talk sense.
Absolutely, marblehalls!
ps: BAKB, and don’t you forget it.
From yesterday.
What Big Al, Koh Samui, Thailand(breaths) said at 11:57, 1:35.
So PHW says we can’t spend £50M on one player, well in other news the Pope is a catholic, Wenger is French and John Terry is a cu*t, talk about stating the obvious.
Giving two extremes like ‘we can’t spend £50M on players’ or ‘look at what happened to Rangers/Leeds’ as examples is annoying to say the least because most sane supporters of Arsenal just want to know that the club is making the best use of its resources as MH stated, BUT there are so many factors to take into consideration before jumping into any conclusion.
Having said that, i think you went OTT a bit yesterday MH, funny but over the top(just a tiny little pincy wee bit), remember the Frimpong ‘scandal’
.
I’m on the same page as you MH, I love Arsenal as they are, I love the constitutional parts that make up the whole: the players, the manager, the new purple away kit, but I’m firmly rooted in reality and that means being able to make objective observations about our club, positive or negative. There is an almost psychotic brand of tribalism running through some blogs and some sets of fans where some think there’s a competition on of who can be the most devoted fan but shouting down and shutting out any conversation that doesn’t fit their various (two) narratives.
I was actually banned from one Arsenal messageboard for being too pro Wenger and have been sworn at by a group of kids on the ACLF blog for empathising with those who criticise the way the club has been run. At the end of the day it’s important to be open to new information and ways of looking at things but also secure in your own judgement and opinions, these people can engage you in debate over your points and posts and perhaps a middle ground can be found or even opinions changed, or they can lose their shit and go absolutely nowhere.
This blog is far more relaxed and nice to read/comment on than most, you’re doing a good job, thank you.
Pls send me ur twitter handle or follow me on @E_0_A,i wil ff bck.i need 2share dis article wit my fellow gunners
EOA – It’s @TheMarbleHalls or just click on the Twitter link in the top left corner.
Thanks Big Al, Khalifha and Zinc.
Yeah, Khalifha. I do love to go a bit over the top here and there. Ha ha! What the hell though, eh? Always nice to keep things interesting around here.
U heard comments from sagna today saying he hasn’t been offered new deal which runs out in 2013-14 so if not sorted soon he’ll go into final yr at end of season now there’s a decision I don’t agree with or understand??
The first thing I want to say is, you’re a joke – we have to get rid of Wenger now!!!1!
The second thing I want to say is, you’re a complete joke – why don’t you get behind our manager and the players – call yourself an Arsenal fan ??!!1!
I had a third thing to say, but I’ve got to go see my therapist now….
Now for today today’s post, real laugh out loud stuff.
I agree with everything written today but some opinions make my head hurt, while reading some of the comments yesterday i could feel my brain cells running for cover and i still maintain that Arsenal fans screaming ‘Wenger out’ have the IQ of two slices of bread, but i digress.
I would like to see anyone try and disagree with any statement made in today’s post, Fine blog MH.
Do Untold know of this Blasphemy !
How about ……. FOPHW …….. Whilst he smokes his expensive cigars & slurps his expensive whisky paid for by out of the exhorbitant ticket prices Arsenal fans pay, he believe we have no right to criticise or have any negative comment. It explains the Stalinist removal of Arsenal TV from the Digital TV platform.
In other words,there are a lot of ONE-DIMENSIONAL fans who need others to lead,think and speak for them,and freedom of speech is too ADVANCED for them. Any deviation would be an insult or lynching posse at the drop of a different thought or topic out of their CONFINED brain-holder. Only ranting abuse or acts of intended violence would be their natural response. Well,to think that evolution has progressed is still a modern fantasy. Now we know why there are willing canon fodders in stupid wars.
completely agree mate.
Err mjc, adding three Exclamation marks and multiple question marks doesn’t make your comment less, hmmm whats the word, anyway tell us why we need to get rid of Wenger!!??!!
Mind of one’s own, i think they do some things to piss off Le Grave, still a good blog in my opinion.
Well said. I’l have 2 share ths article. I wanna follow you on twitter. Follow me @olesiare
I’m sorry, I thought “!!!1!” was very clear sign of sarcasm. Please re-read my comment. I would never be so mean as to seriously call someone a joke….
So that’s it…..you’re just sitting on the fence then
)
On a serious note, I agree with what you say, it’s the way of fans to love something’s but hate others, but all hate or love the same things, leading to disagreement. Still listen to 606 and get a ‘professional’ view from Robbie Savage to see that a professional cannot always talk sense. His answer to anything he doesn’t like is to ask the questioner have they done whatever at premier league level, which they obviously haven’t so in his mind he’s write.
I like your blog because it does vary from likes and dislikes and views expressed one week can change next week. Other blogs can sometimes just repeat the news from the media, now that I find dull.
Brilliant piece. I really like this blog and your writing style.
i find the vast majority of the Anti Wenger brigate are the very people who only started supporting our great club within the last 10 years. On a smaller lever that say Chelsea – These Arsenal ‘fans’ are glory fans if you will.
The funny thing is these people started supporting the club when Wenger revolutinised it and won / competed for trophies and now that times are more lean they don’t like it and throw their toys out of the pram.
The longer term fans who have been there for decades, or in my case since the mid Graham era can see how far we’ve come since then and all the great things Arsene Wenger has done for this club.
Don’t get me wrong, AW is not immune from criticism and some of his decisions are mind boggling at times but he is still the best man for this club and the most important thing for me is that he always tries to do right by the club.
How many other managers can that be said for?
The vast majority would happily bankrupt a club for short term glory.
Arsenal tv wasn’t removed it was part of sentana sports which went bust and no one connected with the club had anything to do with that
Mjc, okay now i feel stupid, my bad. I lost a couple of brain cells yesterday while reading some pretty daft comments, whodathunkit.
Khalifa – now worries. Just avoid those comments – they rot your brain faster than brain-rotting bacteria! (!!!1!)
(no worries)
for a relatively new blog you’ve made it into my top 4 pretty quickly.
i hope you can persist with it and establish a larger community.
its been a pleasure watching the comment section grow.
yes even the trolls
must be doing something right if you get haters they say right…… right?
mjc- i guess you were being serious about the therapist too.
@ Khalifha, 6th, 2012 9:38 am
I have read “London Evening Standard 04 September 2012 – Peter Hill-Wood: Of course Arsenal can win the league this season . . . and Spurs won’t trouble us”, and gave some personal opinions based on that report plus other bloggers comments and viewpoints. However, most of my comments yesterday could have been made in the past, present, or future without any help from Hill-Wood, because the views I expressed were actually my own, as they normally are.
But I’m slightly puzzled at your comments seemingly aimed at myself (above).
I’m well aware Hill-wood was stating the obvious… but HE made the comments not me. So, is it me you’re annoyed at, or Hill-Wood?
I personally take his ‘obvious’ statements with a pinch of salt (to some degree), but also as reiteration of (albeit obvious) facts, which it seems he feels necessary to give.
If he didn’t give answers that you wanted to hear, maybe the relevant questions weren’t posed by the reporter. That is to say, relevant to you, and myself as it happens, because I actually want the same info and reassurances that you and other Gooners want.
If the info and reassurances are not given in the report that’s hardly my fault, is it?
I say all this in respect, Khalifha. If our opinions differ, that’s life.
Agree with you on this though: “Having said that, i think you went OTT a bit yesterday MH, funny but over the top(just a tiny little pincy wee bit).
@ hantsgooner ‘Arsenal tv wasn’t removed it was part of sentana sports which went bust and no one connected with the club had anything to do with that’ ………….
Liverpool TV also was part of Setanta but channel remained on Sky platform thereafter. The Arsenal Hierarchy did not like the Fans Forum on a TV channel platform where fans could criticise as they had been doing in great numbers for the transfer policy at the club.
I’m an AKBTALOUOTHMYOCEAHDTDWWTSWPHITUPOHAIKOTSAWOHP yeah you know me!!!
@ Khalifha
Reading your post AGAIN, I’m still unsure if you’re against me or actually agreeing with me.
@ marblehalls
In Khalifha’s absence, would do you think… is Khalifha friend or foe?
Yours faithfully, Confused.
Goonerstevedave- That may be true, I’m not really sure. But I know I’ve been a fan of Arsenal for two years, and I’m likely as big a Wenger fan as you’ll find (though in the MH camp of sanity, because no one is immune from thoughtful criticism. I’m one of those new global fans that was attracted by the quality of the football, the type of players, and the way the manager runs the club. Here in the USA the soccer clubs just aren’t that inspiring to watch, and the brand of football they play generally leaves a bit to be desired.
MH- You’re completely right, both sides shouldn’t be attacking you, as your criticisms are always thoughtful. You’re pretty much being tarred by association. I think part of the problem is that a large portion of comments on any Arsenal site are essentially the incoherent ramblings of madmen (well it’s comments on the internet, we should have expected this!). This tends to get people riled up and frustrated. I don’t think it’s likely that Wenger will be fired because the Arsenal organization seems to realize how good of a thing they have with him, but it’s hard not to get frustrated at people demanding endlessly that Arsenal fire the man responsible for me liking the team in the first place. Though I’m sure most WENGER OUT types wouldn’t care whether people like me are supporters as I live an ocean away and have never been to the Emirates.
Clearly mistakes have been made since the invincible season, time and time again fans have said we need to work on our defence, look what Bould has done in such a short space of time, think what could have been if this happened several seasons ago. listen, money was not the problem, it was all down to the manager’s reluctance to do what was necessary to win. Wenger is brilliant, but he is also stubborn and arrogant. I remember Malcolm Allison as a brilliant coach, but he was also a stubborn and arrogant man. Allison did his best work in unison with Joe Mercer who provided qualities he lacked. Wenger did his best work with David Dein and since he’s left the club has been ruled by a megalomaniac. Under these conditions its imperative that ex-players and fans provide constructive criticism.
Big Al, haha, I AGREED with everything you posted yesterday.
Yours Devastatingly, Clarity.
The lack of reasoned and reasonable debate around the club and team is depressing – there do seem to be just pro and anti-Wenger camps megaphoning each other. Your blog is a brilliantly articulate antidote to all that silliness.
You can admire Wenger’s achievements while not believing he is above criticism. The lack of constructive internal debate in the club is also worrying. Wenger might even benefit from an insider sounding-board to his own ideas. The fortuitous accession of Steve Bould is an example – critics said things could be done with the defence – we did not defend set-pieces well and so on. Wenger bridled at such criticism but the improvement is obvious to all.
Similarly, it is not unreasonable to look at Arsenal’s financial income and reserves and ask could it be better finessed to achieve more bang-for-the-buck on the pitch? Arsenal cannot compete with the super-rich Manchester United income or the petrodollar subsidised City and Chelsea but come on, Arsenal is still a financial monster of the game. It disposes of a huge budget in wages every single week. It is one of those teams that makes the Sky franchise make sense – it helps provide one of the few appetising top team clashes that keep the thing afloat, given a lot of the other flavourless fixture fare on offer. Is that ultimately fan-derived money being used to create the absolutely best chance of titles?
It is frustrating that at times judicious sums placed here and there would noticeably strengthen the team, while some foresight would mean we do not get into silly-wage deadwood overload situations again. And, of course, that is aggravated by the strange skewed wage structure, something that is a thing of mystery to most fans.
These and other issues are perfectly legitimate areas of concern that do not really revolve around the personality cult of Wenger. Some are general issues that would have to be addressed whoever is in charge.
I trust The Marble Halls will continue to echo with the arguments.
@ Khalifha
Cheers buddy, I genuinely wasn’t clear on it, and certainly no offence intended (whether friend or foe).
Good post Les Arse, though I don’t believe the wage structure is a mystery – like the purchase of Sebastien Squillaci there is logic behind the system – I understand why it was put in place but also understand, as does the club that in practice it produces some serious problems that outweigh the positive impacts, perhaps.
If I can add anything to all that’s been said: this and A Cultured Left Foot are about the only Arsenal blogs that can be really enjoyable. Not because they are “Wenger out” or “AKB” blogs, but because a lot of the entries are simply well-written, smart, and sometimes hilarious.
But I’d go with Dubzie on this one – I’m happy to follow MH, but not because I agree with everything he says. A lot of the things published here stand to my reason as well, but some don’t. Sep. 5th’s post raised several problems for me.
1) I went into it straight after reading a set of completely b.s. anti-Wenger comments to an entry on Arsenal Banter (which I couldn’t even locate later on – perhaps it eventually got too violent to maintain). They shared more or less the same general sentiment: PHW as a senile idiot holding the fans in total disregard and perhaps even abusing them. Then, of course, our noble chairman transformed into an image of our beloved club: badly managed by senile idiots who hold the fans in total disregard and perhaps even abuse them – e.g. by not buying ANY new players. And this was the point that got me rattled, because we have spent £40m on new signings. Before we started selling.
So I came here with a definite anti-anti sentiment, and MH’s post looked very much like a smarter and less vulgar extension of the same cr*p.
2) I really believe you could make an argument for gagging PHW, as he seems not to have sufficient qualifications to represent the club to the media. He talks in a sensible and understandable manner, but he’s known for not choosing his words wisely. Everybody knows that, so I was surprised MH took PHW’s comments so drastically seriously.
3) I also believe this to have been a mistake because PHW was, at least to my mind, speaking of something entirely different to the things MH or most of the fans related to his statement. His “£50m” comment doesn’t seem to have been created in order to silence critics who demanded 1 or 2 subs to be signed. No, it rang fairly true to me as a definition of the club’s stance toward transfers such as Hazard’s. We can’t afford to spend most of our transfer budget, usually estimated at about £50m, on one player. Even Messi. Every year, our team needs to be strengthened in several areas – due to departures, long-term injury issues, and other problems. I’m not blind, I can see we’re going to have another high-profile sale next summer, because we always do. And we’ll have to accommodate for that – not by buying, say, Pepe for upwards of £40m (I guess that’s the lowest amount we’d have to pay Madrid) because Vermaelen or Djourou is going to leave – we need to find good players at affordable prices, to make the most of the money we have. If we can ensure sufficient arrivals, it’ll be great – but sometimes it doesn’t work that way.
4) And that’s another reason why I can live with PHW’s comment. I think we really were looking for a striker who could compete with Giroud, or at least act as his sub. Giroud is a special player because he’s very tall and tough, while also being quite fast, and especially fast-thinking. There aren’t so many players like him around. Benzema? Falcao? Llorente? Damiao? Huntelaar? Ba? These are the names one could associate with a transfer to Arsenal, and they belong to individuals who would cost us in excess of £20m per transfer plus wages, in most cases highly inflated. What I think PHW was trying to say was that it was both illogical and stupid to expect Arsenal to come up with such deals while we’re obviously not looking for more stars, only utility players. Why didn’t we get one, you’d ask? I think it’s because there was no one around who we could trust to easily accept our offer, including the potentially limited game time. Another problem was that we failed to get rid of Chamakh, which, I guess, slightly diminished both our resources and our resolve to buy anyone else. I don’t think the fans would accept another low-profile flop like Marouane, so the management perhaps cut its risks there at the expense of squad depth. Maybe it would have been wiser to give Wenger some additional emergency funds for him to go out and lure another striker with an inflated pay – in place of the game time. But that’s hardly the way Arsenal are doing their business nowadays.
5) The final problem that I think the Sep. 5th post raised was that it could be made to play into the “sack the board” narrative too easily. PHW is a senile idiot? Yes! So what is he doing in the board? He’s stealing our money! I don’t think that’s true. Members of the board are widely thought to earn often less than Academy members. Furthermore, I don’t think they get anything out of their shares – did Arsenal ever release any dividend? But that’s just the narrative which is lurking behind such criticism of the board. A risk which, in my opinion at least, was never worth taking.
To sum up: yes, I agree we should have signed one more player, if only to feel a bit safer about having only one Giroud. No, I don’t think PHW’s comments had anything to do with that idea.
And sorry for the overlong tirade. Too little alcohol this morning.